Indiana Jones Q&A With Hasbro Round #6

The problem we have is that unlike the other Hasbro brands at the moment, like Star Wars or Transformers is Indy a small line and dependant on success of the movie. If the line had come out earlier, say in the 90s, we'd have done well weith them because the movies were still riding high on the successes of the original trilogy and the acclaimed Young Indy Chronicles. But its not just that, Star Wars and Transformers have a much bigger array of characters from comics and cartoons as well as the movies, unlike Indy

To me, Hasbro marketed Indiana Jones like they marketed Star Wars or Transformers. Give it everything out of the gate. That plan appears to have backfired.

I definitely don't agree that Hasbro doesn't know how to market to collectors: look at the G.I. Joe 25th anniv. Does anyone really believe that kids are buying that line who doesn't have an adult influencing the decision? Anyone? But the line seems to sell. Does anyone believe that kids are buying most of the Marvel legends figures? Maybe certain figures here and there, but I'm a pretty huge comic geek, and there are characters I look at and have to ask myself "who the heck is that?" Those both seem like fairly collector driven lines in mainstream stores that are working.

And notice the difference in the way the figures are released: Small, consistent waves versus large floods of product. Star wars, Transformers, and the marvel movies seem to have support from both sides of the aisle, but G.I. Joe definitely appears to be marketed to collectors.

Just my opinion here: If Hasbro had marketed Indiana Jones differently, it might have survived. Smaller waves, correct mistakes along the way, small shipments to not allow any time to become peg warmers, reuse various parts as you go to save tooling costs, invest profits back into the line over time. Start small and grow over time.

What Hasbro did, though, was come out strong, like they would have done for a Star wars launch: 25+ figures in the main line,3 vehicles, deluxe sets, 4 different scales, no time to know what wasn't working or to address issues, and with what we are told are the expenses of molds, a huge up front investment. Basically everything is invested on the success or failure of the initial waves. We're seeing improvements in the future waves, but at this point it appears hasbro is having trouble getting the new figures into stores.

T

Still though all Hasbro did was send stores what the stores asked for. They did not force the stores to take as much as they did. Retailers always go nuts for any toys based off of a movie and they did it with these too.

I wish Hasbro and other companies would be able to stand up to the retailers and tell them no and put limits on their merchandise. Hasbro has stated before that with the Star Wars line that retailers went overboard wanting too much and then could not sell it. I think this majorly happened with EP1. With each film Hasbro set more limits to the retailers that would not allow them to place orders like that again.

It shows that toy companies are aware of just how much will move in a store but the stores don't get it. Until retailers wise up they will continue to do this with every toy line based off of a movie.

It's a conflict of interest. Hasbro wants their toy lines to continue year after year after year. The retailers don't care about that. The retailers want to make their money/sell their product right there, right now. They could care less that Indiana Jones doesn't survive into 2009...that's just one less toy line they'll have to buy. They want to "strike while the iron is hot" and sell as much of those movie-based figures as they can, and worry about the future later. If the line sells great, then sure they'll keep it around, but most movie lines "hit big" and then disappear.

Heck, they pretty much count on most movie-based lines only sticking around for a year. After all, they have to have space/room in the budget to buy next year's movie-based lines. If every movie-based line continued perpetually, stores would have to continually be expanding the amount of space they use for toys to have enough room for all of them. That's also why lines like Transformers, Star Wars, and (soon) G.I. Joe tend to switch to "movie only" or mostly movie-based versions in movie years. The retailers wouldn't buy two separate lines running at the same time.

As for "collector oriented lines" yeah, Marvel Legends and G.I. Joe's 25th Anniversary line are more collector-driven than most, but it needs to be noted that both lines ship in considerably smaller numbers than the "A-List" brands...and Marvel Legends in particular is basically on life-support as a line.

To me, Hasbro marketed Indiana Jones like they marketed Star Wars or Transformers. Give it everything out of the gate. That plan appears to have backfired.

I definitely don't agree that Hasbro doesn't know how to market to collectors: look at the G.I. Joe 25th anniv. Does anyone really believe that kids are buying that line who doesn't have an adult influencing the decision? Anyone? But the line seems to sell. Does anyone believe that kids are buying most of the Marvel legends figures? Maybe certain figures here and there, but I'm a pretty huge comic geek, and there are characters I look at and have to ask myself "who the heck is that?" Those both seem like fairly collector driven lines in mainstream stores that are working.

And notice the difference in the way the figures are released: Small, consistent waves versus large floods of product. Star wars, Transformers, and the marvel movies seem to have support from both sides of the aisle, but G.I. Joe definitely appears to be marketed to collectors.

Just my opinion here: If Hasbro had marketed Indiana Jones differently, it might have survived. Smaller waves, correct mistakes along the way, small shipments to not allow any time to become peg warmers, reuse various parts as you go to save tooling costs, invest profits back into the line over time. Start small and grow over time.

What Hasbro did, though, was come out strong, like they would have done for a Star wars launch: 25+ figures in the main line,3 vehicles, deluxe sets, 4 different scales, no time to know what wasn't working or to address issues, and with what we are told are the expenses of molds, a huge up front investment. Basically everything is invested on the success or failure of the initial waves. We're seeing improvements in the future waves, but at this point it appears hasbro is having trouble getting the new figures into stores.

T

Still though all Hasbro did was send stores what the stores asked for. They did not force the stores to take as much as they did. Retailers always go nuts for any toys based off of a movie and they did it with these too.

I wish Hasbro and other companies would be able to stand up to the retailers and tell them no and put limits on their merchandise. Hasbro has stated before that with the Star Wars line that retailers went overboard wanting too much and then could not sell it. I think this majorly happened with EP1. With each film Hasbro set more limits to the retailers that would not allow them to place orders like that again.

It shows that toy companies are aware of just how much will move in a store but the stores don't get it. Until retailers wise up they will continue to do this with every toy line based off of a movie.

To me, Hasbro marketed Indiana Jones like they marketed Star Wars or Transformers. Give it everything out of the gate. That plan appears to have backfired.

I definitely don't agree that Hasbro doesn't know how to market to collectors: look at the G.I. Joe 25th anniv. Does anyone really believe that kids are buying that line who doesn't have an adult influencing the decision? Anyone? But the line seems to sell. Does anyone believe that kids are buying most of the Marvel legends figures? Maybe certain figures here and there, but I'm a pretty huge comic geek, and there are characters I look at and have to ask myself "who the heck is that?" Those both seem like fairly collector driven lines in mainstream stores that are working.

And notice the difference in the way the figures are released: Small, consistent waves versus large floods of product. Star wars, Transformers, and the marvel movies seem to have support from both sides of the aisle, but G.I. Joe definitely appears to be marketed to collectors.

Just my opinion here: If Hasbro had marketed Indiana Jones differently, it might have survived. Smaller waves, correct mistakes along the way, small shipments to not allow any time to become peg warmers, reuse various parts as you go to save tooling costs, invest profits back into the line over time. Start small and grow over time.

What Hasbro did, though, was come out strong, like they would have done for a Star wars launch: 25+ figures in the main line,3 vehicles, deluxe sets, 4 different scales, no time to know what wasn't working or to address issues, and with what we are told are the expenses of molds, a huge up front investment. Basically everything is invested on the success or failure of the initial waves. We're seeing improvements in the future waves, but at this point it appears hasbro is having trouble getting the new figures into stores.

T

This is heavilly a store's fault. Lets look at it this way.

After the hype for KOTCS at the theatre, TRU thinks "great, a nice little earner here" so orders 3000 figures from each wave. Kids and collectors want the stuff and it does well, but only manages to move 1000 figures from each wave. That means they're stuck with 2000 figures from each wave that they can't move, thus they don't get reordered on the system

But on the flip side of the coin, its Hasbro Distribution too, with heavy numbers of figures being shipped. Plus they're also shipped alot of previous wave figures with newer waves of figures. Which is not what is needed. I mean, we all have raiders jacket Indy, so why is it inclided as part of the case assortments for KOTCS AND Last Crusade wave?

There's a reason I said "arguably" on the Transformers thing. I think they're action figures. Some other folks don't.

As for Hasbro going "all collector, all the time." Anyone who believes this would be a recipe for success is completely deluded as to the realities of the toy market. Hasbro is a business, staffed by people that generally know business better than most (if not all) of the folks on this board. If Hasbro even thought, much less "knew" that scrapping the idea of marketing to kids and going straight for the adult collector market was a sure-fire way to massive sales...THEY'D BE DOING IT. Not to mention the "model" being suggested would kill the action figure market completely. Even adult collectors are likely to pick up a video game for $50 rather than an action figure.

While I firmly believe that adult collectors make up a larger percentage of the market share than Hasbro seems to believe (I think I read a 15% estimate though that was a couple years ago), but no matter how much we want to fool ourselves, we are NOT "the majority" of action figure buyers. We're not enough of a market to sustain -any- large-scale (in terms of amount of product released) action figure line on our own.

(though arguably Transformers aren't "action figures.")

Um yes they are

They are considered it

I thought I heard before that to be classed as an action figure the toy had to have more than three points of articulation. Most of the Gen 1's had that many at least even if they were part that was used for transforming. Todays have tones of articulation. Other than that action figures can be classified as that if they are toys in the form of a human which most Transformers are in robot mode.

So yes, Transformers are action figures. They sre just a transforming action figure.

@Indianajones101

When it was first announced Hasbro would be taking over the Marvel line, I cringed. I knew how lousy they did with the Batman and DC lines, and that they would ultimately destroy the entire Marvel line. Then I went to Comic Con 06, and like everyone, was completely impressed by the Marvel Legends line. Then, reality hit. The reality I had expected initially. Piss-poor figures at a higher rate.

Hasbro pretends to listen to the collectors. But they don't. If they did, they would implement the suggestions we have made since they destroyed, err, took over the Marvel license. BH (Before Hasbro) I purchased every Marvel Legends figure, with exception of series 3 Unmasked Wolverine. ATB (After Toy Biz) I purchased the entire first wave of ML, to make my review, and then I returned each and every one of the pitiful pieces of plastic.

I must thank Hasbro for one thing, however, and that is the vast amounts of money they are saving me, by insisting on releasing some of the worst figures known to man. Low quality, high pricing all have left me in a no buy mood for several years.

Hasbro has never had any rights to Batman or anything DC. Mattel has and Kenner did a long time ago. Whatever Kenner did does not carry over to Hasbro today.

I collect Star Wars and GI Joe and Hasbro has done many things that I wanted to see done. Just look at the fans choice polls for an example of them making what the majority of us want.

I would not say Hasbro has done a terrible job on the Marvel liscense. I left the Marvel Legends behind long before Marvel took over as did alot of the other collectors. There is just as much blame on Toy Biz as there should be on Hasbro for the sahpe the Marvel line is in today.

(though arguably Transformers aren't "action figures.")

Um yes they are

They are considered it

@Jmacq1

Mostly, the limitations are Hasbro's limited imagination, over-pricing, and inability to create a decent figure.

I considered getting some of the 12 inch figures, but, they were truly uninspiring (imo) and offered nothing worth collecting.

So, that leaves me with either collecting the IJ line elsewhere, or, not at all. I'll end up with a small cross selection of a few higher end

items, and that will be it.

Did Hasbro make a cool playset, that could be used for a display and to recreate various scenes? If they did, I must have missed it. I saw some

awesome displays at Comic Con, but, nothing so inspiring on shelves.

Hasbro has to forget about targetting figures to kids. Kids buy video games, sometimes action figures, but, its the adult collector who buys the vast

majority of figures. Not to mention, IJ isn't really targetted to kids to start with. Once they figure this out, they can retool their entire marketing and

restructure it to make things better. But, until then, we'll be faced with low quality, over-priced figures, that barely resemble the actors.

But, if Hasbro ever woke up, they'd discover there's a whole new world out there. Example: Real Action Hero figures are selling for $150+ and quite

successfully. So, why is Hasbro failing at $20? Sure there's more to it than price. Medicom items are limited. They are typically screen accurate. That

requires more money. But, am I wrong to say if Hasbro put some real time and effort in, they could make some inspiring figures at half or a third the

cost of the higher end items? Example: Toy Biz did some medium quality figures with their Marvel Studio line and was relatively successful. Ie, Hasbro

could do well IF they charged a reasonable price for decent quality items. I can see an Indiana Jones line working. But, like I said, they have to use a

bit of imagination. Give us a reason to buy. Instead, they limit themselves to boring figures, with no reason to buy.

Once again, here's a great example: Ive seen people asking for a Jone' side car motorcycle. Where's that at? Well, Hasbro didn't make it. It would have

been a huge hit.

At least that's how I see it.